Analyzing The Third Circuit Court's latest...

fauxreal · Senior Member

RE: Analyzing The Third Circuit Court's latest...

fauxreal · Senior Member

I would like to add here also, that Vinnie Orsi was a friend of Lisa Lambert and Lawrence Yunkin.

He was a witness to both Yunkin's violent temper and numerous beatings of Lambert by him as well as a witness to his fondness for little girls.

He wanted to testify at the Federal Hearing, but Savage scared him out of it, and once again, threatened to implicate him in the murder of Christy Mirack.

Vinnie Orsi wrote Rainville a letter explaining that he did not feel safe testifying because of these threats.

hjj

fauxreal · Senior Member

There is no sign whatsoever that Yunkin ever gave blood, or was produced for a hold-down as demanded by Dalzell. I've searched all the relevant transcripts after April 3rd. Nothing.

Tabitha is mentioned however. Of course, her lies could not survive the trip to Philadelphia under oath in front of a real Judge. Her own attorney demanded that she not be allowed to testify. She might have actually told the truth at her deposition. And that's why her attorney freaked. But, we can only speculate as to what she said at her depositon. It was, after all, the only time she said ANYTHING about Laurie Show's murder and her involvement. What is clear, is her complete and total perjury in 1998. And what a dramatic moment it was.

That baloney only worked in front of Stengel one year later.

I'm reading right now, a section of Lyn Riddle's book OVERKILL, and am pressed to share it with you so ridiculous a lie it truly is.

Rainville stunned courtroom and much of East Lampeter with her allegations that Lambert had been raped.

Please, Lyn Riddle. The rape issue was well dealt with at the Federal Hearing. Thank God we don't see any other novels with your name attached.

hjj

bobula · Veteran Member

If you go here:

http://www.co.lancaster.pa.us/scripts/bannerweb.dll

you can type in the name of a party to a case to get information about the motions and so on involved in the case. If Yunkin was not shown by blood testing to be the father of Lambert's child, the whole custody issue would have been concluded after the test results were obtained. As for the thought that the paternity test "evidence" was destroyed by Cellmark, I thought 20/20 discovered that it had not been, Rainville's claims to the contrary.

Also, let's listen to the hoofbeats of Yunkin's own paternity and think logical horses instead of conspiracy zebras for a minute. In the proceeding fauxreal cites above, Jackie Yunkin begins to answer the question with "Lawrence...", and she is cut off by the judge. Just maybe the judge interrupts because it is immaterial and goes beyond what is probative into badgering. One summer during college I had a job where I worked with Jackie Yunkin a few times. Believe me, if the name of her son's biodad was the key to some deep conspiracy, she would not just be ready to volunteer it, in court or wherever. I don't think Jackie does much she doesn't want to do, and, if she does, she doesn't do it quietly. If they actually were married at some point before Lawrence was born, as has been suggested, it should be a matter of public record somewhere.

Lots of people adopt their spouse's children from previous relationships so they all have the same name. Perhaps Barry Yunkin didn't go through legal channels to adopt Lawrence when he married Jackie and to change the child's last name to his own. Remember, back in the 70s in rural America, Lancaster County or anywhere, people didn't always go by the book. Schools didn't ask the questions and require the ID they do today. I am not saying that is right, but i do think it is immaterial.

one_eyed_Jack · Veteran Member

I read somewhere that Yunkin gave the blood test and that it proved his paternity. That is not correct, I take it?

The thing is, if this latest hearing is to be given any validity it should at least have the facts straight. What is the point of a ruling if it contains factual errors?

Hazel Show was clear as a bell on her recollections of where exactly she saw the brown car, the fact that it was Yunkin's face she saw, the expression that came over his face, that he pushed a blond-haired woman down in the seat, and a dark-haired woman was in the back seat. How did this very clear and concise testimony go from that to a brown flash she barely remembers which in the same sentence references officer Savage?

The 29 questions were chilling to me. They showed the state of mind of Lisa Lambert in relation to Lawrence Yunkin and Lawrence Yunkin's state of mind in relation to her and this murder. He had fond memories of the murder. He liked it. He wanted Lisa to feel responsible for the upcoming castration he alleged he had been threatened with if he had to go to prison. How long had Lisa and Lawrence been together? It was pitiful to read Lambert's question to Yunkin that if she covered for him could things go back to the way they were on their first date. Her question on his faithfulness except for the little girls was disturbing. How was she able to reconcile the sexual contact with the little girls?

The State so obviously plea bargained with the wrong person. Unfortunately, we will probably be hearing about Yunkin again in the future. If Tabitha Buck is beginning the process of seeking relief, perhaps we will find out more through her hearings. There is a lot more to the interpersonal relationships between Buck and Lambert and Yunkin.

bobula · Veteran Member

I think it was ABC's "20/20" that reported that the paternity test results were 99.98% positive that Yunkin was the father of Lambert's child. Apparently, in an attempt to cast doubt on these findings and to support the vast conspiracy theory, Rainville claimed that the test results were mysteriously destroyed so they could not be reviewed. ABC reported that the lab said the data was still available at the time they were asking about it.

I think the less support there is for the rape charges against the police, the less there is for the defense argument that Lambert was framed by East Lampeter police for Show's murder. How convenient for the cops that it all worked out--it's not often that someone they'd like to keep quiet has friends who actually commit a murder in which she can be implicated! Sure beats a rinky-dink drug charge set-up any day, doesn't it?

one_eyed_Jack · Veteran Member

Actually, I'm not really considering Lisa's claims of rape while reading the transcripts and learning about the case. It's one of those things that I would have to take on faith that Lisa is telling the truth. I can see prosecutorial misconduct occurring without the rape.There was such a public outcry, the officials may have railroaded the first likely person without doing a thorough job. It's like telling a lie. Then you have to keep telling lies to cover it up. I understand the Feds did an investigation and no one was indicted. I'd like to read more about that. I don't always trust the Federal government to do a good job either, so it would be interesting to learn more about.

I think I'm understanding from the 29 questions Lisa is saying she saw Laurie Show dead and it scared her. Is that right?

I wonder what life was like with a battering, rapist, pedophile? How old was she when she got together with Yunkin?

fauxreal · Senior Member

Hey OEJ, Bobula, I spoke with Lisa today and asked her about the hold-down with Yunkin and the blood. The blood on Laurie's ring had deteriorated, as reported by Cellmark, to the point where DNA testing was rendered impossible. I wouldn't doubt if it became that way in the hands of the evidence keepers.

Bobula, you seem so reluctant to suggest that Yunkin was indeed the murderer of Laurie Show, when there is just so much evidence proving otherwise. As for the transcripts of the custody hearing that I read with great interest. The judge made his decision without concern for who Kirsten's father really was. In fact, he pointed out that since Lisa's whole family testified that the Yunkins wanted to pay for an abortion for this same child, that years later, they suddenly want, was totally ludicrious. Jackie's demeanor on the stand was way less than calm. This did not go unnoticed by the Judge. The fact that Yunkin showed zero interest in this child until his mom filed the papers which lead to the custody hearing, also did not escape his attention.

The most important fact of all was that Kirsten was terrified of Jackie Yunkin. At each visit she yell, demand, pound the table, until Judy Lambert just stopped the visits altogether.

All of these factors led to his decision to keep the whole family of Yunkins away from Kirsten forever. It was the right decision.

Lisa confirmed today that nobody knows who Lawrence's biological father is and that Lawrence doesn't know either. She also said that Jackie would make up names if someone persisted enough to make it seem suspcious that she was so reluctant, because she overheard her talking to Barry about how "that should throw them off enough". I believe Barry might know, but that is uncertain to say without a doubt. The fact is, it is extremely important to Jackie that nobody find this out.

We spoke today, Lisa and I, about the Christy Mirack unsolved murder. We spoke of Robin Weaver's involvement (and who I believe is her killer) and how he too became in charge of the evidence from the get-go although it was Officer Yockey who was dispatched to the scene.

The paternity issue only holds so much weight. The results were indeed destroyed the day after they were issued. This issue was testified to in the Federal Hearing. The 20/20 segment on the Lambert case was woefully remiss in covering the Federal testimony. It was hardly a factual or complete account of the prosecutorial misconduct. Those shows are more entertainment than anything else. That's a fact. What is relevant are unedited transcripts. Period. What is even MORE relevant, is that you will sooner find out who Yunkin's real father is, than ever get the opportunity to read ANY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPTS generated from Lancaster, concerning the Lambert case.

I appreciate Bobula, you posting where we can go to get selected motions and rulings but that is truly what biased is defined as. A one-sided source for information. That was never the case with Dalzell. He did not hide anything, he did not gag anybody, he did not stall when distributing disks of the proceedings to the media, none of which Stengel did. Period. Perhaps you were not there for the P.C.R.A. hearing. The second one in 1998, I mean.

Stengel had a problem when the press showed up. Lancaster's reporter's he knew of course would tow the line, but those from outside Lancaster proved problematic. Why? Because some of them had BEEN at the Federal Hearing, and now were listening to witnesses tell a different story, like Hazel, for example. Although Stengel overuled every objection made by Rainville when the lie-fest began, he knew they would be able to talk to reporters at the end of the day and explain the farce that was taking place inside the courtroom. And it was truly a farce.

So, he slapped a gag order on the attorneys, for both sides. Although several media outlets sued to have it lifted, he persisted. There was ABSOLUTELY no reason for the gag. No reason that spoke to justice. It was to obfuscate the obvious perjury that was allowed to go on day after day........and prevent Lisa's attorneys from telling reporters and the general public who were perhaps unaware, for example, that now, Hazel Show suddenly didn't remember much of anything, just a "brown flash". Are you kidding me with that crap? I posted here exactly what she remembered, and she stopped the whole hearing to tell everyone all about it. How can maintain any level of credibility whatsover if a year later she decides back in the comfort of the corrupt Lancaster proceeding that she didn't remember anything. It was absurd.

There are so many different accounts of what Laurie Show actually said that morning, I have posted as many as I can find. In front of Dalzell, she said that Laurie took a deep breath when she cut the rope from around her neck. Laurie's neck was cut to the spinal cord. Her lung had already been punctured by Tabitha. She had no air left. Period. Then she tells Dalzell her daughter, once cradled, said "Michelle did it", "Michelle, Michelle," then "love you", "love you".

In front of Stengel, Hazel said her daughter took a deep breath, then "moaned".....then spoke "Michelle did it, Michelle, Michelle", then said "love you" "at least fourt times". When people lie they tend to forget the story they told the last time they were asked a specific question.

This is Hazel Show. In one account, Laurie "mouthed" the words "love you" which she usually states was said twice. Then at another venue, be it the courtroom, or one of the many talk shows she's been on, Laurie "spoke" the words, "love you", "love you". It's completely ridiculous and Hazel Show has none. She lost it when in front of me and everybody else she gave a totally different account of what she saw, meaning Yunkin's car.

What was tragi-comic was the way Tabitha lied about being picked up on Oak View Road, as she was instructed to say, and yet 3 witnesses had already seen Yunkin at the wheel pushing heads down and driving inside the complex. The 3rd Circuit tries to downplay this by saying that it doesn't matter if he was inside the complex, it doesn't mean he was inside the condo.

They miss the point. What it means is that Savage ignored evidence of Yunkin's obvious lies, and evidence of his being where he said he wasn't.

Since they made the plea-bargain with Yunkin, they naturally had to destroy or fabricate all the evidence which clearly pointed to him, particularly the earring back which the autopsy doctor specifically wrote in his report had skin, and hair, enough DNA to prove he was there and killed Laurie Show. It mysteriously disappeared. You can thank Renee Schuler for that. Renee Schuler was also the consultant for the book by Lyn Riddle.

I notice these relevant facts seem unimportant to you, Bobula. You also ignore the lies I have pointed out that were made by the 3rd Circuit. That is serious for all Americans.

As for the father of Lisa's daughter. Even if it is Yunkin, does not mean Lisa was not raped.

If you read Savage's testimony about when he heard about the rape and what was done, he tried to blame it on another Officer, Abrams. He's no longer with the EL Police Dept. and was forced to resign.

You had no comment about Weaver taking control of the Mirack evidence, and how he just showed up on the scene.

Lisa reminded me today that before the call was even made to 911, a patrol car was seen outside of her apartment. It disappeared, the call was made, then Yockey was dispatched, then Weaver arrived and dismissed him.

Yeah, Bobula, everything's just hunky dory in the Lancaster investigative division. You bet.

No conspiracies, just destruction of evidence, coercion of witnesses, solicited perjury, editing of video tapes, notes destroyed, statements fabricated, deleted, and altered. No problem, eh Bobula. Surely you jest.

hjj

one_eyed_Jack · Veteran Member

""If you read Savage's testimony about when he heard about the rape and what was done, he tried to blame it on another Officer, Abrams. He's no longer with the EL Police Dept. and was forced to resign.""

Really. I haven't got to that part.

I do think it is a good thing Kirsten was not allowed anywhere near where Yunkin could ever get to her.

fauxreal · Senior Member

Hi OEJ, it's funny you should mention about having to tell lie after lie once the ball gets rolling, as it surely did when Lancaster made it's pact with the devil, as Dalzell so aptly put it.

Lisa, in the 29 questions, was referring to Tressa, when being scared about her dead-eye stare.

She was referring to when she went to the funeral of Tressa, and then looked into the open casket and had to leave, when she looked back at Tressa's boyfriend, and he gave Lisa a "threatening" look.

Lisa never saw Laurie dead. She was not in the condo when Laurie was killed by Tabitha and Yunkin. She was only there when Tabitha started stabbing Laurie in the back.

I'm so pleased you are reading the testimony. You've made it past the most difficult but important testimony, that is Charles Larson. As you continue on with Jacob Glick, and the officers, there are moments that will literally find you trying to remember to breathe. It's just one lie after another, one piece of evidence after another, destroyed, not produced, not collected, unedited reports, then edited reports. Rainville and Greenburg are outstanding attorneys. Rainville collected thousands of articles, and only because Dalzell gave her the power of discovery.

That's why you have to give Stengel a little slack, but not much. He never saw any of the evidence that proved Yunkin the killer. But he did, at Lisa's trial in 1992, make the incredibly idiotic statement that "just because the killer's clothes have blood on them, doesn't mean he's the killer". "It's totally plausible that Lisa was wearing the killer's clothes". Stengel doesn't work too hard to find the truth. He just goes by what his cronies tell him. I'd be fascinated to find out how he is doing in Federal Court. No doubt, more than one attorney is walking away from a decision thinking, "How the hell did this guy get here?". George "duh"bya Bush. That's how.

Tina Rainville now works for the Securities and Exchange Commission. When you read how she questioned witnesses in Lambert's Habeus Hearing, there's no doubt as to her thoroughness.

When she explains that the blood tests were destroyed the next day, they were. She is not a liar. You see, Lisa said today just what you said in your above post, OEJ, which is, once you start the lie, it continues, one on top of another, on top of another, and then it goes so far as to extend to the television accounts of the story. It was not Cellmark, that I recall, who took blood for the paternity hearing. Cellmark was used for the ring blood testing.

I saw the 20/20 segment, and was surprised to see this "document" they had specifically to surprise Rainville and Greenburg. They were told that the results had been destroyed the following day. Now, suddenly they are available for ABC News. It's just more evidence of a cover-up. Rainville and Greenburg are not liars. ABC is more entertainment than news. Especially when it comes to programs where they rely on those who were corrupt, to give them the information. Lancaster had a lot to lose, when Lisa Lambert was proven innocent in Federal Court. They were petrified of the huge Civil Suit they knew would follow. Lisa was harassed, death threats made against her, followed, the whole 10 months she was free she really wasn't. If she was guilty, she would have fled the country when the appeal was filed. She probably should have, in retrospect. She has never said that to me, once. I said it to her. She had every reason to get the hell out of dodge if she only knew how long the deception would be carried out. But she did not.

OEJ, I urge you keep reading these transcripts. There's a mountain of details that will surpise you, and convince you of Lisa's innocence. Her testimony about life with Yunkin and the rape she endured is fascinating. If anybody out there thinks this is a shocking story, about cops raping girls, think again. After all, who do you turn to when the cops rape you? More cops? Not likely.

Lisa never had a chance at a fair trial. Ever. Not for lack of trying to be sure. For example. It's ludicrous to think that exhausting her "state" remedies were even ever considered to be remedies. How can they be when Stengel refuses to consider:

Ms. Lamber filed on July 1992, her first set of post-trial motions, raising thirteen bases for a new trial. Stengel denied the motion on July 19th 1994. It only took him two freakin years to do this. He wasn't that busy, he just didn't give a rat's ass. Made her wait two years for a response.

In October 1994, with new counsel, Lambert filed a second set of Post-verdict motions, raising nine instances of trial counsel's ineffectiveness and two items of after-discovered evidence. Stengel denied the motions on March 14th 1995.

The PA Superior Court affirmed these Orders without Opinion on January 4, 1996 and the PA Supreme Court with comment denied Ms. Lambert's petition on July 2nd 1996.

Without opinion. Just blind denial. And she is supposed to somehow dream that she is going to get "relief" from the state? Please. They just denied everything without any consideration.

Dalzell, when presented with the absurd argument that Lambert hadn't exhausted her "state" remedies, within which there are no chances for remedy, he cited the landmark case Schlup vs. Delo.

Justice Stevens wrote for himself and four others:

"If a petitioner such as Schlup presents evidence of innocence so strong that a court cannot have confidence in the outcome of the trial unless the Court is also satisfied that the trial was free of nonharmless constitutional error, the petitioner should be allowed to pass through the gateway and argu the merits of his underlying claims"

"In assessing the adequacy of petitioner's showing, therfore, the District Court is not bound by the rules of admissibility that would govern at trial. Instead, the emphasis on "actual innocence" allows the reviewing tribunal also to consider the probative force of relevant evidence that was either excluded or unavailable at trial"

"To be credible , such a claim requires petitioner to support his allegations of constitutional error with new reliable evidence whether it be exculpatory scientific evidence, trustworthy eyewitness accounts or critical physical evidence that was not produced at trial"

Dalzell goes on to explain what happened after the Schlup vs. Delo case became law.

But after Schlup was decided, Congress adopted the Antiterrorism and Effective Dealth Penalty Act, in April of 1996, (one year after Lisa's denial by the PA Superior Court)

This act by Congress would appear to raise the Schlup burden of proof in all cases to a "clear and convincing" threshold.

Fortunately, however, we need not reach this difficult issue here because the quantum of proof that Ms. Lambert has marshalled is so heavy that, at a minimum, she has carried her burden on all issues that we address by at least clear and convincing evidence. In many instances, she has gone far beyond that burden, such that we no longer entertain any doubt as to the merit of her claim to habeas relief.

Under the unusual circumstances of this case, many of the claims of prosecutorial misconduct also support the claim of actual innocence. This is because this misconduct was of such materiality as to undermine our confidence in the state court's ability to perform it's most fundamental function, which is to find the truth. As will be seen, none of these instances of misconduct was trivial or technical, but all, inevitably led to the creation of a wholly unreliable record of Ms. Lambert's guilt of first degree murder.

I would like to point out here, that many people say, as you do Bobula, that Lambert was at least an accomplice as in, "how convenient that the person they are trying to frame has friends who committed a murder" or something to that effect. Lisa was the ONLY one who was tried for the Death Penalty. She was tried for FIRST DEGREE MURDER, NOT CONSPIRACY.

Dalzell found her innocent of First Degree Murder. The Commonwealth made it's bed when it started plea-bargaining with the man they KNEW was the murderer. The one whose mug shot was even destroyed. Who was allowed to lie about the 29 questions, saying on the stand in Lisa's trial they were tampered with. Experts on both sides had already proven this to be a lie. Did Stengel care? Not a bit.

I'll be back with the most egregious acts of misconduct.

hjj

fauxreal · Senior Member

To Bobula, as for the custody hearing,and the Judges, sudden and quite loud outburst, you would have to read the transcripts to understand how truly insistent he was that Jackie not utter the last name of Lawrence's true dad. Not to worry, on his part. Jackie had long ago learned how to lie about this topic, and what Lisa told me today confirms even your account of Jackie Yunkin. You made your post before I spoke with Lisa, and before I read what you wrote.

You admitted that Jackie would not reveal to anyone the name of Lawrence's real dad, if it would uncover a conspiracy involving her beloved, murdering, pedophiliac son. She of course, was probably going to utter whatever name she had revealed in the past, to "throw someone off", as Lisa said today, she did quite often, and proudly. Jackie Yunkin is a calculating, dominating, lying woman who has protected her son's battering of women to an extraordinary degree.

Once, when Lisa and Lawrence were staying at the cabin Jackie and Barry owned up in the mountains somewhere in PA, he beat her so bad, and sodomized her so brutally, she was bleeding from the anus, the bedsheets were soaked with blood, she had brain fluid leaking out her nose, and a huge bruise on the side of her head where he hit her with a crockpot. What did Jackie say? "Well, Lisa, you just better get used to taking it up the ass, because all women eventually have to".

They waited for three days before taking her to a doctor. They would not let her use the phone to call her parents. That's the wonderful Jackie Yunkin. You're right. She does what she wants to. Or what she chooses not to.

She showed herself on the stand real well at the custody hearing. Scary, to say the least.

Lisa said she spent a lot of time down at the Garden Spot Bowling Alley down there in Strasburg I could say more, but I think I will just leave it like this. Lots of young girls, underage, can hang out at the Bowling Alley. Lots of young Amish girls hang out at the Bowling Alley. Lots of Amish families live in Strasburg. It's not, as Bobula would suggest, just a place where the "cows get reported out of the barn". Please. I spent two years there, and you're gonna try and pull that one off to the good readers here? There are Amish hoedowns, the wildest parties in the County, there are Amish prostitutes, Oh yes, you heard me, Amish prostitutes. They hang out down at a little restaurant on Route 30 near Gap......change from their Amish black dress and bonnet, and into some nice tight spandex gear.....then they sell their little heiney's to the truckers that stream through there by the hundreds. Lancaster, you should know is a major hub for truckers. It's centrally located. 2 hours from NY. 2 hours from Baltimore, 2 hours from Washington D.C. You've never seen so many truckers in your freakin life! I couldn't believe it when I first moved there......they bring in the drugs, they bring in the guns, they bring in all kinds of goodies...........

You were asking OEJ about the FBI investigation, well isn't that an interesting topic. You are so smart, my dear, I am repeatedly reminded of that.

It was the FBI that exonerated those responsible for Lisa's most corrupt trial. But Dalzell didn't ask the FBI to probe the misconduct. He asked the U.S. Attorney's office.

Especially galling was the statement that "District Justice Ronald Savage", was found innocent of any charges of misconduct as a Judge.

He wasn't a Judge when he took over the Laurie Show investigation, he was a detective. That's how they got around that. It didn't go unnoticed, and some letters to the editor were actually published about this. When we get the archives section back up on my website, you can go back to 1998, and all the articles that I wrote when I lived there. There's one called "When Ron Savage Sues You", Part 1 and 2. He started suing everybody as soon as he was exonerated by the FBI. The FBI's main job is to solve bankrobberies. Fact. They haven't solved too many in Lancaster in about the last 10 years or so. It's incredible how many there are. No pink dye packs are used. No transmitters inserted into the stacks of hundreds. Hell, I was thinking at one point of renting a buggy, dressing up like a sweet Amish girl, and man, talk about a shocker, while the tellers were busy gossiping about how bizarre it was, I would be in my buggy and cracking the whip over the horses, and on my way to......well the nearest farm.

I like to share. Farming ain't bringing in the business it used to. Lord only knows.

Anyway, only those that are part of the "team" get to rob the banks. I figured that one out, after asking around.

Enough said there.

Here's what Dalzell said about referring the misconduct to higher authorities. The FBI was never mentioned.

As noted in the body of the memorandum, we shall refer the matter of Assistant District Attorney Kenneff's blatant unethical and unconstitutional actions to the PA. Disciplinary Board for further investigation. (Kenneff was demoted to public defender )

We shall also refer this matter to the United States Attorney for investigation of possible witness intimidation, apparent perjury by at least six witnesses in a federal proceeding, and possible violations of the federal criminal civil rights laws.

We have found that virtually all of the evidence which the CW used to convict Lisa Lambert of first degree murder was either perjured, altered, or fabricated. The CW has even attempted to perpetrate a fraud on this Court by destroying the men's extra large sweatpants black it used to convict Lisa Lambert and substituting a much smaller pair in this proceeding, apparently in an attempt to undermine Miss Lambert's contention that it was Yunkin who wore the black sweat pants. Such total contempt for due process of law demands serious sanctions.

The U.S. Attorney's office dropped this one into the lap of the FBI. Why? Good question.

hjj

bobula · Veteran Member

Fauxreal, I didn't say the only thing that happened in Strasburg was the cows getting out. Of course I know better than that. That's about the extent of what is in the weekly newspaper, though, and that's the context in which I made that statement. And thanks for telling me all about the bowling alley. Jackie Yunkin was working the counter the last time I was there.

So you think the Amish are now robbing banks? Interesting.

You know, if you really believe that there's this terrible, ongoing conspiracy of thousands who are willing to put their careers on the line to continue to frame and keep an innocent woman in prison, why not contact an innocence project that might consider this case, even though it is more complicated than a DNA-solved case?

PENNSYLVANIA

* Innocence Institute of Western Pennsylvania
Bill Moushey
Point Park College,
Department of Journalism and Mass Communications
201 Wood St.
Pittsburgh, PA 15222-1984
* Duquesne University School of Law Innocence Project
900 Locust St.
Pittsburgh, PA 15282
(724) 837-3333

I am not saying this to be patronizing-- I am sure all that you have already done with the materials you have would give them a big headstart if they decided to work on Lambert's case.

-- Edited by bobula at 04:13, 2004-10-20

one_eyed_Jack · Veteran Member

The US Attorney's office has its own investigators and investigate corrupt public officials if it can be shown the official(s) profitted financially from the corruption. If the financial profit can't be shown they don't take the case.

I have to admit a rather jaded eye toward the FBI. They don't mind doing a little railroading themselves.

fauxreal · Senior Member

Hey you gals, I've come down with something like the flu. I feel horrid.

Bobula, who said anything about the Amish robbing banks? Please, quit trying to put words in my mouth. I said I thought about dressing up like an Amish girl, and trying to pull a bank job off. I never said the Amish are robbing banks. The ones in Lancaster are doing so well selling their culture to the tourists, they own their own freakin bank. Please. And like all religions, there are those who believe in God, and there are those who profit from it.

I've read all of Bill Moushey's articles. I even called him on the phone. He told me about his conversations with the Yunkins. He explained everybody involved in that investigation was cashing in on it. And, there are not "thousands" trying to frame an innocent person. But at this point in time, there might be.

If you don't get it yet that all the evidence which would have sent Yunkin to prison for life, was either destroyed, fabricated, altered, or not produced, well keep reading freelisalambert.com.

I'm taking apart the 3rd Circuit opinion,and man does it just full-on REEK WITH LIES.

You keep talking about DNA, Bobula. There was DNA that could have convicted Yunkin. It was on the earring back that was in Laurie Show's hair, found during the autopsy, which disappeared after it was given over to Renee Schuler.

The DNA on Laurie Show's ring had disintegrated so that only a blood type could be determined.

Lawrence Yunkin and Laurie Show had the same blood type. Could this case be any more complicated or intrigueing? Lord Have Mercy.

I was trying to get across my very controversial opinion, and you bet it's a conspiracy. Conspiracies are all over this fine country of ours, Bobula. Drug dealers and bank robbers make more money than those in charge of bringing them to Justice.

The Greed Factor in these times we live in, is the main objective. Fear Factor, for example.

Hey, wanna eat some pig's rectum for 50 Grand? Sure? Why Not? It's appalling.

When I lived in Lancaster, the exoneration of all officials charged was, of course, front page news. Madenspacher and Kenneff were smiling and the article spoke of the FBI clearing them of all charges. There's only one problem. The FBI was never asked to investigate these officials.

Whose robbing the banks in Lancaster? Well, let's see,......we can come to some conclusions if we are the kind of people who understand what Iran-Contra was all about......I digress here for a moment, for good reason. I was working on a big Yacht and we motored from Mexico to Honduras in 1983. Reagan was supplying the Contras with weapons; we're talking about 15 year old kids with M-16 machine guns.

I ended up getting work in a dive resort off the Coast of Honduras at that time. I fell in love with the Bay Islands. The CIA would fly there on the weekends for R and R. I met one of them and we got to be good friends. Eventually he took me to the airport where our troops were teaching the Contras how to use the guns loading up the C-130 cargo planes with COCAINE.

Tons and tons of cocaine. Conspiracy? Well, I hope to shout. If you remember how the story broke, it wasn't until 1986 or 1987, and it was a good old boy from Lancaster County, Eugene Hasenfus, whose plane, loaded down with the good white stuff, was shot down in Nicaragua, Central America. They found the drugs, alerted the Media of Eugene's capture, and Iran Contra began to be the scandal that eventually went nowhere. Reagan couldn't recall anything and blamed it on Alzheimer's. (The Watergate gang had already taken "I can't recall" to levels that couldn't be believed anymore, so Reagan made it his "disease")

Bobula, you don't seem like much of a conspiracy gal to me. That's O.K. Maybe you haven't seen the things I have seen. This entire country is a conspiracy. How about voting now?!

Hey, it's time to vote, in some select states! What the Hell is up with that? I thought we all went in November to cast our ballots. Unless we were absentee's with good reason. So much for that.......seems like anybody can cast an absentee ballot.

If someone dies and is still registered to vote, you can go and vote for them! I heard a guy on the radio the other night on the Drudge Report, who wrote a whole book on voter fraud.

Bobula, I have no ill-will towards you, I really don't. I'm totally jealous of you in many ways.

You get to go to the Hamilton Club. You probably live in some wonderful stone mansion on School Hill Road, or whatever.....that neighborhood that puts Beverly Hills to shame.

I am poor, but I have a purpose. I know, from living in Lancaster, how brainwashed everyone was who believed everything they read in the papers. Many there don't have any desire to not believe what they read. Many there don't think it's odd to have three papers with different names coming from the same source. It creates a unique frame of mind. I would meet people there who swore they would only subsribe to The New Era. Others wouldn't be caught dead without the Intelligencer Journal. The Sunday News claimed to be yet another totally different view or slant on the stories. Give me a break. You don't need to be a Rhodes Scholar to see the "conspiracy" there, Bobula.

Lancaster almost defines the word. Ever wonder why there is not one, I mean I looked hard too, but not one postcard of Downtown Lancaster? It's beautiful! You got yer Watts and Shand building, empty and waiting for something. You got your Central Market, with all the Amish dolls and refrigerator magnets and lawn ornaments, and damn good chow chow, and all the rest. But the Amish, are the ones that sell themselves to the outside world which they claim to eschew. Every postcard is of Amish Country. I think it's time to put the white ribbons on your car antenna. You know, the White Ribbon March against pornography! The Amish don't participate, because they don't drive. I remember it's right around Halloween that this takes place. There's the good Amish and the Bad Amish. The good Amish are moving away from Lancaster. Not all, but some. The Bad Amish are working their kids to death, pretending to live a life they now only sell. Maybe they are robbing the banks! Damn, they stole my idea!.....Many of them sadly are in the Puppy Mill business. God, I get sad just thinking about how they treat these dogs. Cages stacked on top of one another to the ceiling. The dogs on top crap all over the ones below. They never leave their cages until the day they get washed and dried and sent to some petshop in Baltimore or D.C. or New York......they get fined, pay it, and then continue on...........thanks for the update on Jackie.........I do wish you would share more......

So, Jackie is still hanging at the counter of Garden Spot? You know what I call her in my novel?

Don't worry, it's just a novel. But i do have a character in there based on Jackie. I call her The Mennonite Madam.

Maybe she's not even Mennonite. Maybe you could take her place. After all, it's one of the main and most interesting characters. And I only have the first draft done at this point.

Keep me posted. No, really. We could write one hell of a book together, you and I.

hjj

fauxreal · Senior Member

As for ABC news, 20/20 and the rest of those shows.....I'm right now watching Diane Sawyer try to convince us that people who answer the phone at home always tell the truth about their sex lives. Yeah, right.

The guy that just took a big hit off his bong, and in a good mood, is naturally have no desire whatsoever to mess with you, right? Wrong!

Who cares anyway, if the Republicans or Democrats are having more sex?

The Amish prostitutes are having more sex than any of us.....and more power to them.

At least they're getting paid to have sex. The joke I heard in Lancaster that was "not so funny", if you will, was this one:

How do you define an Amish virgin?

A 12 year-old girl who can outrun her father and brothers.

If they can get out of the house and make some money on the side, more power to them.

hjj

bobula · Veteran Member

Where do you get that Hasenfus was from Lancaster County?

fauxreal · Senior Member

Hi Bobula, regarding Eugene Hasenfus, because I was in Honduras when all that drugs for weapons stuff was at it's height, I read many books on the subject. I remember reading about Hasenfus' capture by the Nicaraguans when it happened, but I didn't pay any mind to the fact that he was described as a Pennsylvania farmer.

When I lived in Lancaster, people would offer up topics for research that they thought might interest me. Jim Guerin, for example. You remember him, no doubt. He was hand picked by Alexander Haig to assist in making cluster bombs, while singing in the church choir, and being awarded "Man of the Year", by the local chapter of the United Way. What a story that turned out to be. When the chips fell, the powers that made Mr. Guerin a millionaire, quickly turned on him. He almost died when he was taken on a ride in one of his own helicopters which he lent to local law enforcement to search for victims lost in hard to get to places. Wonder what ever happened to Jim......as in is he still in prison? Last I heard, he was incarcerated down in Coral Gables, Florida.

Anyway, Eugene Hasenfus may still be researchable with a Google Search. I found out more about him by reading several books on Iran-Contra. One of them was co-researched by Tom Flannery, former reporter for the Intelligencer Journal. I recently learned that he passed away. He was a good writer. The book was well written, and had the word "Web" in the title, as in spider's web. I wish I could remember the whole title.

Eugene Hasenfus was most assuredly from Lancaster County. I can't recall the exact township. I recall it was out near Paradise way, or Gap area.

I have some interesting archived e-mails on freelisalambert.com now if you want to read some the letters I got back in 1998. The one from Stephen High is most interesting. I had no idea who he was at the time he wrote me, but I do now.

hjj

bobula · Veteran Member

Everything I read about Hasenfus says he is a native of Wisconsin. I can cite a few sources for this.

OK, I give up....who is this Steve (Stephen C.) High who wrote you the letter?

fauxreal · Senior Member

Whoa, Bobula! Are you telling me you did a Google Search of Eugene Hasenfus and it says he's from Wisconsin? Lord have mercy! Now, that's interesting. I mean, Reagan is dead already so why do they have to lie now about Hasenfus? Hold on, while I go get my one book i still have called "With the Contras". Maybe there's something in there about him. Be right back. In the meantime, quit pulling my leg that you don't know who Steven High is!!!

High Industries? Biggest backers of the new controversial Convention Center? Bigger even than the Manheim Auto Auction. Well, actually, that may be a stretch. It is, after all the biggest used car Auto Auction in the world.Bigger than Kuntzler's hot dog factory, that's fer sure! I used to live across the street and I can still smell those dogs cookin over there/24/7, that smell was in my bed, my curtains, my carpet, even on the fur of my little black rabbit, Little Jeter!.......I loved that smell! Oh my memories of Lancaster! So much I love about that place.......so so much. Anyway, back to Steven High......he's the President of High Industries.

High Industries builds all the bridges in Lancaster, most of the huge buildings like the new Fulton Bank, I believe, wow, what an undertaking that was, and.....well if you do a google search of High Industries, you'll see who Steven High is. I'm just glad I kept his e-mail. When he sent that to me, it was on Mother's Day, 1998. I didn't have a clue who he was but something told me to keep his name on it. I'm glad I did. Did you notice what strange comments he made, for example, linking rape victims in with feminists?! Mondo creepoid.

I'll be right back. I like you Bobula. I want to work together with you. Give it some thought.

We could do some real good work together.

Stay awake. hjj

bobula · Veteran Member

Pay close attention, fauxreal. The "Stephen C. High" who wrote to you on your website is not the "Steven L. High" who is President of one branch of High Industries (not the whole thing). I know the latter and his family personally, and he is in no way affiliated with that letter you have on your site. You don't need to tell me about High Industries--it looks as if you don't have any idea, quite frankly.

You know, it is so easy, with google and a bit of reading comprehension, to discredit so much of the "information" upon which you build your conspiracy theories. I don't know whether you are just not very bright or, in your zeal to believe the worst about people who are basically decent, you just overlook details and jump to incorrect conclusions. You seem to enjoy building up people like Lambert who have clear track records of antisocial behavior while looking for the slightest opportunity to slime people who are just honest, hardworking, and well-intentioned. What is it about decent people that makes you want to malign them so fervently, even in the face of information to the contrary?

fauxreal · Senior Member

Hi Bobula, the book I have, With The Contras, only chronicles what happened after Hasenfus's plane was shot down in Nicaragua. I swear, I'm not making it up. I just don't have all the books I read where he was featured as the "guy who broke the scandal" wide freakin open.

I don't think he's still alive, because he was in his 70's when his plane was shot down. I would love to read the resources you have just because I'm amazed they are saying he was from Wisconsin! That's absolutely not true! I did a Google search several years ago and there was quite a bit about Hasenfus at that time. Even an interview that he did with Kris Kristofferson that was quite interesting. As I recall, Kristofferson had performed at a concert near where Hasenfus lived.....aha! I just remembered where he was from! Quarryville!!!!! That's it!

Hasenfus was from Quarryville, without a doubt, I don't know why, but suddenly it came to me!

My hair might be falling out, but the Alzheimer's doesn't have a foothold yet! Knock on Wood.

Anyway, maybe that will help in your research a bit. I think misspelled Quaryville. Is that better?

You are so good at that online research stuff! Keep up the good work! See what happens if you do a google search of Hasenfus, Eugene, Quaryville? I still don't think I'm spelling it right.

You know how though, I'm sure. I feel like hell today, but I'll be here for awhile. If you're still up, let me know what you find. And yes, tell me about this Wisconsin stuff. Maybe he's from there, NOW, but he sure wasn't back in 1994-97 when all the crapola hit the fanola.

If you know what I mean.

hjj

P.S. You do remember Jim Guerin, right? What a story THAT turned out to be. In 1999, Jeff Hawkes did a column about me called AFTER LAMBERT SHE FALLS IN LOVE WITH LANCASTER....

Maybe you can get it online in his archives. In it, he asks me why I think Lancaster lends itself to corruption. I said something to the effect that corruption hides behind religion oftimes, as horribly as that sounds, it's true. In Lancaster, I opined, people who are corrupt have all kinds of religion to hide behind, and the Amish are like the curtain behind which stood the Wizard of Oz......and then I said, "where else but Lancaster would you find a guy like Jim Guerin, who sang in the church choir, while at the same time was making a killing selling cluster bombs?"

Jeff loved that quote. Then, the more I found out about Guerin, the more sorry I felt for him. He was the fall guy for so many other crooks involved in his various companies. It was sad the way they just let him eat it for everybody else. He went down hard. And he did alot for Lancaster. The Jim Guerin Pool, Park, Golf Course, Stadium, etc. etc. They all hurried to take all those signs down once his goose was cooked. Thanks, Alexander Haig. For nothing.

He's doing just fine, thank you. Alexander Haig, that is. What an a-----.

hjj

bobula · Veteran Member

Gee, so now there is a vast conspiracy to make Hasenfus from Wisconsin instead of Quarryville.

http://www.brianwillson.com/3rdWorldLegs.html

"Furthermore, I had spent time with Eugene Hasenfus, both on a visit to the crash site and while he was imprisoned in Nicaragua in November 1986, and learned of the air drop routes used to transport United States military supplies from bases in El Salvador to the contras in Nicaragua. (Hasenfus, a Wisconsin native and ex-Marine in Vietnam, had previously participated in secret missions over Southeast Asia for the CIA-owned airline, Air America. He was caught red-handed in October 1986 dropping supplies from the United States to contra terrorists in the interior of Nicaragua when the secret plane he was on was shot down by the Nicaraguan Army. He parachuted to safety before being captured.) We had plenty of reason to ask that CNWS refrain from any further illegal shipment of munitions to kill civilians in Central America."

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0113-03.htm

"It was the downing of Wisconsin native Eugene Hasenfus' plane in Nicaragua that led to the unraveling of the Iran-Contra web of deceit. Hasenfus' capture prompted congressional investigation into North's role in the Contra war. In December 1986, North invoked his Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination in testimony before Congress."

Apparently Hasenfus was alive and exposig himself in parking lots as recently as 2004. Note also the DOB of 1941 on the police form on the second site.

http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg50220.html

http://www.nwcitizen.us/wic/Quickly/WherearetheynowEugeneHase.html (see link to Smoking Gun site with report)

Even Kristofferson says, "'He was so ****ed off at the government. I thought he could be a voice tellin' what they had done. But all he wanted was to get out. He lived in Michigan or Minnesota or someplace. He wanted to be in the woods with his kids. He just wanted out. '" Not PA.

http://www.salon.com/people/lunch/1999/09/24/kristofferson/index2.html

I really doubt even liberal-leaning publications and websites have been drawn into covering up that Hasenfus was from Quarryville.

There's nowhere near Quarryville where Kristofferson could have had a concert, either.

fauxreal · Senior Member

Bobula, you are an amazing researcher! Hasenfus sounds like he's not doing so good. I'm at a loss to explain why he was once written about as coming from Pennsylvania. Now he's from Wisconsin. I do remember when he first was shot down that he was from Pennsylvania. I have no reason to make something like that up just for the hell of it. When it happened, his capture, I was living in California and reading the Los Angeles Times.

If I'm not mistaken, it was the book Dark Alliance, by Gary Webb of the San Jose Mercury News who wrote about him. It was an ex-military guy from Lancaster with whom I became friends when I lived there who told me Hasenfus hailed from Quarryville.

Do you think it's possible that he used to be from Quarryville? Last night I tried to access information from the Dark Alliance website, but got "the page cannot be displayed".

I am truly impressed with your research skills. The problem with internet information, I have found, is that it can disappear at any time. The Sprague and Lewis cases that were once available, are no longer there, for example.

And there were some interesting ones, indeed.

Bobula, do you remember Jim Guerin? What can you find out about him? That was such an amazing story about his fall from grace. The more articles I read about him, on microfilm from the Lancaster Library, the more sorry I felt for him. It seemed like his greed got the better of him, but man, when the heat got turned up, they all turned on that poor guy like a pack of wolves! Am I wrong about that? It's certainly the impression I got.

I would love to know your thoughts on that, if you feel so inclined to share.

Once again, I applaud your computer research skills. Hasenfus exposing himself in parking lots.

Not a pretty thought.

Get back to me about Jim Guerin? Please, oh please. I know this is a little off-topic, but we are talking about the Third Circuit, right? I am wondering if Guerin appealed, and what, if anything came of that.

Thanks, Bobula......

hjj

bobula · Veteran Member

Can't help you much on Guerin, other than affirming that he is not Mennonite, heh.

The whole ISC situation unfolded during my newlywed/new job/new homeowner/grad school era, so I don't recall a lot other than seeing it all over the papers and not having any time to process it. I think since the part with Guerin was a done deal before the internet came along explains why there isn't that much available online. He entered a guilty plea, so that would explain the lack of some types of legal documents. There is relatively recent court info online about the continued legal wranglings of Thomas Jasin, who was indicted with Guerin.

If Guerin is going to serve out the entire 15 years, that would take him until 2007.

fauxreal · Senior Member

Thanks Bobula! Thomas Jasin's name is not familiar to me. When I lived in Lancaster, people who knew about my website and my interest in Lancaster's criminal cases, were always telling me to "Check this out", or "Don't miss this trial", that sort of thing. Jim Guerin was already in prison by the time I got there, but I went to the library and the guy who was in charge of the microfilm always knew the right years I needed to read up on stuff.

So many people said "Read up on Jim Guerin", so I did. Then I read the book that Tom Flannery helped to write about The Web of Deceit or something like that. I can't remember the exact title but it went into detail about how Alexander Haig was looking for someone who could help make cluster bombs to be used not only during the Iran Contra arms for drugs scandal, but for for the technology someone like Guerin could provide.

The story was so sad. They guy at the time was trying to make a living with the components he making and barely making a living at it, when Haig just dangled this carrot and convinced him to climb aboard the money-making war machine. Once he got into the illegal illicit cluster bomb business, he became a multi-millionaire......and he shared the wealth all over Lancaster.

It was so sad to see his fall from grace in the newspapers. One month he's "humanitarian of the year", then up to ears in deep trouble.

You know, Bobula, you really ought to read those transcripts I have up on my site someday.

Not to change the subject here but, you might find them interesting and I would love to hear your opinion. You're so damn smart I find it hard to believe that you think Lisa's trial was such an honorable affair. It so clearly was not, but unless you read the testimony, it's hard to understand that. It's so totally wrong that Lawrence Yunkin is out there, and I have no doubt that other women are going to suffer eventually because of it. I don't even want to think about the "little girls" he enjoys so much. We all know the sad truth about pedophiles. They don't stop wanting children ever, usually, and don't rehabilitate well.

I'm going to continue going thru the Third Circuit's latest.......opinion, which is exhausting to read the way they have it fomatted on the internet, half on one side, half on the other. They could have made it a little easier to read.

hjj

fauxreal · Senior Member

Hey Bobula, I think I must have missed one of your posts. That letter is most definitely of the High Family. One thing that hasn't escaped my attention is how you refuse to comment on the relevant facts about Weaver and Bowman, the perjury, Weaver's history of abusing retarded people and dragging prisoners around by the hair; I can only assume these are the hard-working decent people you claim I am maligning? You obviously aren't paying attention to what I've been saying all along. It's the hard-working decent people that made me fall in love with Lancaster, as well as in it's sheer beauty nature-wise.

Let me make myself clear so you get it Bobula. The people I am maligning, I think is the word you used, have done that to themselves. Renee Schuler, John Bowman, Robin Weaver, Trooper Solt, former Detective Barley, District Justice Ronald Savage, John Kenneff, and Lawrence Stengel,......YOU might think they are decent hard-working people, but I totally disagree.

The way they handled Laurie's murder investigation was a totally criminal affair.

I met alot of decent hard-working wonderful people in Lancaster. They'd like to get rid of some these power-hungry morons themselves. They don't have the power to do so.

Christ, I could fill a book about the stories people regaled about RONALD SAVAGE. One guy wrote a letter about him signing a search warrant at the kitchen table and it actually got printed in the paper? Savage sued him AND the paper. I was there when he did it. A District Justice who doesn't understand Free Speech. It wasn't slander, because he showed me the warrant, signed by Savage, WITHOUT THE JUDGES SIGNATURE. Are you still with me? He was a detective then, and after he signed the warrant himself, he then confiscasted drugs from the residence and no charges were filed. How about that? You can split hairs about Eugene Hasenfus, but I notice it's the irrelevant details you are using to try and discredit me in other areas. It's not working.

Furthermore, you don't know diddly squat about Lisa Lambert. Antisocial behavior?! She didn't even have much of a social life with Yunkin. Do you have any idea at all what living with a batterer is like? Obviously not. Lisa is not anti-social now, and she wasn't then. You need to read the testimony. You like to challenge me on all the trivia, while ignoring the relevant questions. By the time Yunkin was ready to plot his revenge against Laurie Show, he had moved Lisa out to a trailer without a phone, no car, she didn't even have a driver's liscense!

If you are basing opinions on the much exaggerated harassment of Laurie Show, get a clue. It was Yunkin driving her there, it was Yunkin telling her what to do. That's what battered women do. Anti-social behavior indeed. Your life might be nice and cushy, Bobula, but you clearly have not a clue about Lisa Lambert. Her life with Yunkin was a nightmare. And those cops knew it. Especially Renee Schuler. She even assisted in making Lisa more isolated from family and friends by insisting that her parents write a formal letter banning her from the home for being "suspected", of stealing a coin collection. Read Judy Lambert's testimony, Bobula, and tell me what a decent hard-working public servant Renee Schuler is. She repeatedly went to the Lambert's about this missing coin collection ........you'd think Renee might have a few other more important things on her plate. Mind you, this letter that Renee drafted herself and had the Lambert's write in their own words, she coached them in other words, was right after Lisa had been raped by the cops. She called it "tough love". It was total bullcrap, and merely a way to assist in keeping away from those she might want to tell about the rape. Judy Lambert testified she was reluctant to go so far as to ban Lisa from the home, but Renee insisted it was the only way she would learn. Did Renee even bother to see if Lisa even had the coins? Hell no. Don't get me started about Anti-social behavior. In the original trial transcripts it's just grotesque to read Schuler's testimony. She trotted out that letter so proudly, and helped hugely to create the impression that you fell for in a big way. You would have thought the coin collection was gold ingots or something. It was worth almost nothing, and in the end, in Federal Court, Judy admitted that it wasn't Lisa afterall, when she realized that constuction workers had taken the coins, more than likely, not Lisa. But regardless, I live in a small town too, Bobula, and when I lived in Lancaster I got to see just how big East Lampeter is. Real constientious, hard-working cops are not wasting their time making repeated trips to parent's home INSISTING they write a formal letter banning their daughter from the home over a freakin coin collection. What they should be doing is working on the Mirack case, the Cortney Fry case, the Brenda Heist case, I think you get my drift. As the murder date grew closer, Lisa was being beaten more regularly. Police reports verify this. I guess you haven't read those.

Yunkin kept Lisa on a short leash. It's you Bobula who needsto do some research. You need to read those transcripts.

It's your credibility that is on shaky ground, dear.

hjj

fauxreal · Senior Member

You know, I do believe I'm starting to feel better! Thanks once again, Justice Junction!

hjj

bobula · Veteran Member

Once again, that letter is NOT from someone connected with High Industries. THAT Steve High has a company to run with dignity--he's not out getting arrested and staging PR events for men's rights, as your letter writer claims to have done.

THIS is most likely the same Steve High who wrote you the letter:

http://www.alliancefortolerance.org/press/2002/2002_05_atheist_discussion.html

There are TWO living in Lancaster. The one with High Industries, whom I know personally, is NOT the one mentioned above.

Actually, I am reading the transcripts on your site. What I was taking major issue with is the sliming of people who have NOTHING to do with the case, as in your editiorial section "The Anabaptist Umbrella" whic appears in the middle of your transcripts for some unclear reason--so many of your facts are just 100% wrong.

I'm not saying much about the people in the case, because I don't know them. Others I do, and you have a lot of info wrong.

fauxreal · Senior Member

Bobula, The Anabaptist Umbrella is an article that was well researched, and is relevant to the case in many ways. Laurie Show's grandfather, Whitlow Show, has a lot to do with why the whole community was insistent on finding swift but inaccurate justice for Laurie Show. The Amish and Mennonite communities are a large part of Lancaster's image to the outside world.

I challenge you to be specific about who exactly I've "slimed". Renee Schuler? She is slime. That's my opinion and I have plenty of factual information to back that up. I'm currently working on my synopisis of the propoganda laden totally biased book disguised as a "true crime" novel, OVERKILL, which she consulted on. Did anybody interview Lisa Lambert for the book, NO! Lyn Riddle claims Lambert "refuses interviews". Wrong. Lambert knew nothing about Lyn Riddle's book, and was never contacted by her, yet in the last pages of her "novel", because it's so full of both fact and fiction, unfortunately all selective, and of course missing the proven misconduct that was revealed in the transcripts I have posted: "Lisa Lambert passes her days at Edna Mahon Prison in New Jersey. She refuses interviews." WRONG, MS RIDDLE! You never asked her for an interview! She never even heard of your totally biased book until I told her about it. The cover alone is an insult. "Pretty, pregnant and primed for Murder".....if Lisa was not in prison, Lyn Riddle could have been sued for this totally biased book. "To the members of the East Lampeter Township Police Department...especially Renee Schuler....much thanks. They were swept up in nothing less than a tidal wave of criticism for the way they did their jobs, a tumult that caused deep hurt and worry". Please, Lyn Riddle, give us all a break. Their jobs!?

What about your job? And that would be? Not bothering to even talk or attempt to talk to the one you call "Pretty, pregnant, and primed for murder? This isn't journalism, it's not true crime and you have relied on Renee Schuler as your PRIME SOURCE OF INFORMATION when she was proven in Federal Court to have destroyed evidence, (the earring back), destroyed Yunkin's sweatpants, covered in Laurie Show's blood and replaced them with a brand new pair, a completely different size, and hoped like hell that a real Judge like Dalzell, and attorneys that weren't from Lancaster, wouldn't notice?......Ann Rule, you aren't, that's for damn sure.

Bobula, I haven't slimed anybody that hasn't deserved it, and all your nitpicking about Marilyn Ware, Eugene Hasenfus, The High Family, and all the rest of the IRRELEVANT ISSUES, have very little to do with what I am determined to keep alive. And that is the truth about who killed Laurie Show, the lies and the cover-up, even by her own mother, the protection and deal-making that was made from the first day, with Lawrence Yunkin, the movie deals Savage had going and with Hazel Show's consent and assistance.

So, if you're reading the transcripts, tell me, Bobula, who have I "slimed"? From where I'm sitting I get the feeling it's you who is sliming me. Or at least you're giving it a damn good try.

It's not working. You're still trying to "slime" Lisa Lambert, because you know nothing about her except what you've been "fed". You can't do your excellent internet research on those who feel I'm "slimed", because it isn't there. Like I said, that's the problem with internet research.

I noticed when you tried to explain away that Jim Guerin has nothing on the internet because he plead guilty and the case was so long ago, doesn't wash. Eugene Hasenfus was shot down back in 1986, dear, and that was before the internet was in full swing, as you suggest, and yet we know from your "research" that he's now exposing himself in parking lots! Interesting, isn't it? There is no substitute for witness testimony under oath in a Federal Courtroom. I have it all right here on the floor. It's real, it's unedited, it's the truth, and it won't "DISAPPEAR" like so much other information does on the "internet". The internet is a wonderful tool for dispensing information, but it's a free-for-all. Information can be removed, it can be selective and called complete, there is truth, and there are lies. We, the public have to sort it all out. The Lambert case has become such a festering sore of deception and lie upon lie, now reaching all the way to the Third Circuit, it's a viper's nest of Constitutional desecration. An insult to all Americans. Buying the transcripts from Dalzell's hearing was the best money I ever spent.

Bobula, there are so many questions you seem to lack the answers for. Like why there are no unedited transcripts from any of Lambert's trials and hearings from Lancaster? Why is that?

Because they prove what Dalzell discovered. A complete lack of respect or concern for finding the truth. And, now that I've taken the time and spent the money to post what really happened in the days before and following the murder of Laurie Show, you can bet that those transcripts are even under tighter lock and key. You never have much to say about that do you Bobula. These people who were just doing their jobs, unfortunately have been doing just that for way too long. They just forgot what those jobs were, unfortunately. There will be no solving of the Christy Mirack murder, I can assure you. Women are being murdered, beaten and are missing in Lancaster at an extraordinary rate. Their signifigant others dispose of the bodies without a trace. If a rapist cop is involved, well, obviously that's a no-brainer. He becomes the case agent, and case goes unsolved.

As Dalzell so aptly put it, and God Bless Him for doing so, "The people of Lancaster are also victims at the hands of their own government. The community's proper and good feelings of compassion for the Shows, and outrage at this horrible crime, were abused here. Just as the Shows have suffered from a lack of closure, so has the community at large. But this same community has a powerful interest in the outcome we have reached here. This case shows how high a price the community pays when it's government ignores THE CONSTITUTION to get instant revenge" In fact, instant revenge is what Lawrence was in search of. His murder of Laurie Show, with the assistance of Tabitha Buck, whom he used just like Lambert, was premeditated, calculated, and then embraced by those who wanted to insure silence from Lambert whom they had systematically raped and then effectively silenced by making a pact with this Devil. Dalzell further appropriately describes this twisted and now malignant and cancerous history......that has reached the highest levels of continued deception....thusly..

"Regrettably, Laurie Show had enough contact with the Lancaster County demimonde to meet the very symbol of that dark world, LAWRENCE YUNKIN. HE RAPED SHOW ON AN EARLY DATE, as he did to Lisa Lambert on their fourth. Unlike Lisa Lambert,however, Laurie Show eventually complained to her mother about it, WHO LODGED A COMPLAINT WITH THE EAST LAMPETER POLICE DEPARTMENT. (this is also revealed in the transcripts, though Hazel lied about that too, claiming that Laurie didn't want to file charges, or make a report. WRONG! Officer Fassnaught had taken and filed the report, and you remember, he was first on the scene that morning, then dismissed by Weaver and Savage). Reports of this complaint motivated Yunkin to concoct his plan to intimidate Laurie Show (but getting Lambert and Buck to do the actual harassment)

into silence. An idea that ended in her brutal murder at his and Buck's hands. Thanks to Yunkin, of this trio of suspects, Lisa Lambert was as though delivered from Central Casting for the part of Villaness. The community thus closed ranks.....behind the good family Show and exacted instant revenge against this supposed Villaness.

Thanks to Renee Schuler, Ron Savage, John Bowman, and Robin Weaver, Robert Reed, et al; this was done with calculation, intention, without regard for justice, and is still a festering wound that has attempted at the highest levels of government to be reconciled and buried.

What happened during the so-called investigation of Laurie Show's murder remains to this day, THE WORST CASE OF PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT IN THE ENGLISH SPEAKING WORLD.

HJJ

I'll be back with an article that was in today's Los Angeles Times, entitled: MENNONITES IN MEXICO BATTLE TEMPTATIONS. You might find it interesting, Bobula.

fauxreal · Senior Member

SUNDAY OCTOBER 24TH, 2004....LOS ANGELES TIMES....MENNONITES IN MEXICO BATTLE TEMPTATIONS.......From the World Section......

The austere sect sought to escape the world, but worldly vices---alcohol, drugs, ---are a forbidden fascination now to some.

By Sam Quiniones....Times Staff writer.

Cuauhtemoc, Mexico.---- As a child in his Mennonite settlement in northern Mexico, Jacobo attended a one-room school, where he did his lessons in chalk on a small black slate and barely learned to read and write.

As a teenager, he was forbidden from from listening to music, playing sports, dancing ,even yelling,by Mennonite authorities intent on protecting their people from the world.

Instead, those good intentions left Jacobo vulnerable--unprotected---when the real world beckoned. As an adult, he became an alcoholic, then a crack cocaine addict. So did dozens of his of his Mennonite friends and acquaintances, he says. By the late 1980's Jacobo could have his crack home delivered.

By the time he quit the drug, he had lost 70 lbs. and owed his dealers, also Mennonites, tens of thousands of dollars. "So many times I went to bed and wished I wouldn't wake up because I was living in hell", says Jacobo, now 37 and four years sober.

Traditional German Mennonism, a denomination that is the doctrinal cousin of the Amish, was founded on adherence to the Bible, pacifism and pious, humble living. That is still the case for many Mennonites in this community who fled to northern Mexico 80 years ago to escape the world and live according to their traditions. But for others, the high life has become a forbidden fascination.

Some Mennonites have become drug smugglers, believed to be affiliated with the Juarez drug cartel that controls the flow of narcotics through Ciudad Juarez, on the border with west Texas, into the United States. Dozens of Mennonites are locked up in prisons in Texas and Mexico's northern state of Chihuahua for running drugs north.

About 50,000 Old Colony Mennonites ---as the most conservative Mennonites are known---live in five Mexican states, about half of them in settlements near Cuahtemoc, a bustling agricultural town in Chihuahua. Their fields of corn and oats stretch wide and clean north of town and are marvels of agricultural efficiency.

Mennonites often shop in Cuauhtemoc, struggling some times with Spanish, and standing out for their physical ----fair skinned, blue eyed, blond women in bonnets and men in overalls and straw hats. To local Mexicans,they're peaceful, God-fearing people, strangers from an earlier time.

For years, Mennonites used buggies, refused electricity and had tractors with iron wheels. They kept to themselves, teaching their children only Low German, a largely unwritten dialect of German. Today, about a third of the colony has opted for full modernity, education and industry.

In the last decade, the Mennonites have been buffeted the same global economic forces that have crushed peasants here and elsewhere: scarce credit for small farmers, cheap cheese imports, low rainfall and their own overpopulation. Large Mennonite farms have grown as small farmers sell out. Young, poor Mennonites have joined the global workforce, immigrating illegally to the United States to work as farmhands in Texas, Kansas, Iowa, and Oklahoma.

For some youths who remain behind, Sunday has evolved from the Lord's Day into a day to get drunk. A curious Mennonite version of cruising takes place every Sunday after church. Old Colony young men, inebriated, drive their pickup trucks wildly along the unpaved country roads of their settlements, looking for girls or groups of friends to get drunk or high with, before they have to return home by 6 p.m. to milk the family cows.

"Every week we find Mennonites getting drunk, using drugs, and driving vehicles in the scariest way" says Manuel Enriquez, Cuauhtemoc's police chief.

A nearby 22-mile highway straddled by Mennonite settlements is one of the most dangerous in the state, Enriquez says.

Seven Alcoholics Anonymous groups serve the Mennonite settlements near Cuauhtemoc; Mennonite members say many more groups would have formed by now had not some traditional pastors labeled AA a cult to be avoided.

In March, Mennonite authorities opened what is believed to be the first drug and alcohol rehabilitation center in North America to exclusively treat German-speaking Mennonites. The center, in the countryside near Cuauhtemoc, has beds for 60 people, including 30 minors.

"We see it as a very serious problem", says Jacobo Dyck, pastor of the modernist Mexican Mennonite Conference church near Cuauhtemoc,who pushed to build the center and runs Bible classes for the patients. "And I don't think we know half of the problem we face, especially among our youth".

I will post Part Two of the article tomorrow.

It is most interesting.

hjj

In the meantime, Bobula, I challenge you to explain any facts from my essay The Anabaptist Umbrella that you can prove are false. I'm not sliming all the Amish or all the Mennonites, by any means. There are far too many factions of both religions to put them all in one box. Like the Mormans, they are diverse, there are many sects within the group but they are not by any means, what they once were, and understandably so. It is ludicrous to think that by isolating themselves from the rest of the world, or pretending to think they can live outside of it, without it encroaching upon them, is not only unrealistic, it's deceptive. The points I make in that essay are valid and based on facts. Much of the Amish culture is now just an image, one that is marketed cunningly, effectively, and profitably.

I have no clue how you practice your specific Mennonite religion, so, as you say, don't think I'm patronizing you, just know that I'm aware of the diversity and the power wielded in it's various forms.

hjj